This topic contains 24 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by 
EdzUp
2 years, 2 months ago.
-
Posts
-
Dear Mark,
I know you’re just about to start working on this and it’s probably hard to make any estimates but I’d love to see some kind of a roadmap for your 3d engine and very rough estimations when you think it will have a rough usable state. Based on your own work I know you should have enough experience to estimate this especially when you’re working full time on that.
So:- What’s your rough plan to proceed – aka roadmap?
- When do you think there will be kind of a usable (not bug free) version?
- Will it be open source as well like MX2 or will it be a paid module?
- Will you put it up to GitHub as well so we could test it already during development?
Thanks and cheers! Looking really forward to this. For my first (finished) 3d game I used Unity. Would love to use Monkey 2 for the next one!
He’ll wake up this morning and it will hit him like a stone that gles2.0 is shit.
For people who aren’t into 3d tech or facts: gles2 = Trump, gles3 = Hillary/Sanders/some Kennedy clone/your favourite local clown/whatever. It’s not Buddha, it’s not perfect but way more interesting to deal with in the future. gles3 is 3d on a whole different level, even if you only cherry pick certain features. The boys using gles3 get the hot girls.
This is what he’ll tell you.
Can we leave out politics please? Otherwise I don’t see why “Hillary-I want WW 3 with Russia-Clinton” should be better than “Donald-America first-Trump”.
No, i’m emotional on this one because i know what it means.
Ya I know what you mean and I tend to agree. Even gles30 is already 4 years old and supported since Android 4.3 when it comes to mobile devices so let’s see what Mark says. I mean there must be a reason behind using gles20 probably?
Take a look at what gles3 brings to the table. It’s fun and a different game.
I don’t have time right now but I knocked together a scene with a sphere being tessellated. It works, the workflow is easy, it’s flexible and enables a lot (and looks great in motion). Dunno if we need to invest time to illustrate the benefits of gles3’s features.
Utilising a graphics subsystem higher than gles2 would kill off the emscripten (i.e. browser) target in the near term because gles3 (via WebGl 2.0) isn’t supported yet by most browsers.
http://caniuse.com/#feat=webgl2
Also, gles2 underlies the current mojo incarnation so mixing 2d with 3d might not be possible if Mark uses gles3 for 3d.
My personal ideal would be a Vulkan/Metal/DX12-based engine, ditching support for all the old stuff and incapable target platforms, but that would probably take ten times longer and alienate most of monkey2’s potential user-base.
So, I see Mark’s current plan as “realistic” and something to look forward to, as, like with everything, there are positives as well as negatives.
Gles 3 is supposed to be 100% retro-compatible with gles 2 so it’s a kind of non-issue to me..
Emscripten is an unattractive platform, it’s the same like it was with HTML5 and Monkey-X. Many who are serious about their content don’t publishes for it now and it’s holding back the rest. If you’re interested in new users and want to move things forward, then you don’t come up with something dated as gles2. mojo2d is no reason too, because what’s working, is very basic and what’s more complex, isn’t there (yet) or not this well designed. You should rather change mojo2d according to how mojo3d shapes up.
Look, guys, quite many of us came from the Amiga. We’re used to good stuff, right?! Not some crap from the second or third row. Since years you see the other kids running around with new toys and we’ve got nothing, our mum telling us that it’s okay playing with ten years old broken trousers. No, it’s not, it sucks. And since mum watches TV shows all night long, you can’t argue with her either. And now would be the right time to make some smart decisions and head into a better future.
I’m not giving up stuff, I truly enjoy on a gles3 level (Metal/Vulkan would be cool).
Anyone watch Johnathon Blow’s streams? I don’t understand everything but they’re quite interesting, there’s a bit here where he talks about how he manages gl extensions in his renderer/engine: https://youtu.be/g2F0Yg17ZfU?t=41m3s.
Taumel, I am having a hard time with the MANY negative unproductive anti egl2 posts. If you have an alternative roadmap to Mark’s own then please promote a reasonable alternative or get off the pot.
For the love of all that is sweet and holy, no roadmap. We’ve done this before and surely know better by now.
As an alternative here is my guess:
mojo3d lines of monkey2 – 18500
lines of monkey2 per developer month – 1200 to 2400
Or less analytical, if this was a road trip (featuring two minis), and Mark begins at Cape Reinga, I am hoping he hits Kaitaia by end of month.
@Simon
I’ve put goodwill in this here, at Mark directly and towards other people over the years. I know what i like and dislike about this whole thing. As for your opinion towards me, I don’t want to be involved into your simplifications and ‘style’ of discussion where people who disagree with you are mostly negative, stupid or get silenced. Try to discuss with some class, differentiate, bring up arguments or just don’t talk to me. The thing is, no matter how much you dislike my opinions, they’re reasonable and reflect the reality we’re living in. I rather put some effort into showing up drawbacks before, expressing my feelings, than wondering afterwards about how it all could fail. We’ve tried the second option already.He’ll wake up this morning and it will hit him like a stone that gles2.0 is shit.
I’m not big on the swearing, please tone it down.
For people who aren’t into 3d tech or facts: gles2 = Trump, gles3 = Hillary/Sanders/some Kennedy clone/your favourite local clown/whatever. It’s not Buddha, it’s not perfect but way more interesting to deal with in the future. gles3 is 3d on a whole different level, even if you only cherry pick certain features. The boys using gles3 get the hot girls.
That’s not an argument, it’s just a bunch of garbage metaphors.
No, i’m emotional on this one because i know what it means.
Well, I don’t have a clue what you mean so far.
I’m not *against* gles3.0, but it *will* cut down the number of targets and devices it will run on and that *has* to be taken into account.
Yes, I know you don’t care about mobile or emscripten, but I am not writing this to suit your requirements.
In favour of gles2.0 is that fact it is very cool API that is capable of way more than people realize – quite possibly more than the majority of users here will eventually do anything with (no offense intended – I include myself here!).
But gles3.0 does have a few very cool features that are impossible to emulate in gles2.0 and would be very fun to play with – IMO, feedback buffers and geometry shaders in particular. So I am *tentatively* hoping that mx23d will one day provide both gles2.0 AND gles3.0 backends, but my priority WILL initially be gles2.0.
Anyone watch Johnathon Blow’s streams?
I used to, esp. his game language vids on youtube, they were way cool! Will definitely check out his GL extensions ideas though.
For the love of all that is sweet and holy, no roadmap.
Ah man, can I work for you?!?
I will likely put together a little roadmap in an upcoming blog post, but it wont be anything too surprising and of course will be subject to change!
Hopefully people more or less get what I’m trying to achieve here, but I will go into more detail soon.
I don’t want to be involved into your simplifications and ‘style’ of discussion where people who disagree with you are mostly negative, stupid or get silenced.
As far as I can see, you’re the only one here with a problematic style of discussion – all you’ve contributed is an entirely ‘fact free’ rant about how much you don’t like gles2.0. Good for you, I hope you feel better etc, but what am I meant to do with that? How does it help the development of mx23d?
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.