Events and more events..

Tagged: Apple events Sierra High jitter performance

This topic contains 39 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by cocon 1 year, 3 months ago.

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January 7, 2018 at 9:47 am #12726

PhatPeter

Participant

@ethernaut I think too that SDL(2) had something to do with it because that is what changed at that time, I tried to look through the development branches to see what it could be.

January 7, 2018 at 10:41 am #12727

PhatPeter

Participant

I use M1 compiler as a reference to prove that it *is* possible (I use a machine with Intel HD 6000 Intel and Sierra). Not a single stutter for hours I promise. The last time I had that was in 1990s, so this was (IS) a huge happening for me. I’m not updating that MacBook ever again to keep this amazing setup.

No High Sierra, no Monkey2

Monkey2 on the other hand on that same computer works average. Don’t take me wrong it’s really good but nothing spectacular. You feel like you’re back in the nineties/noughties with microstutter now and then. I spend lot of time to create an equivalent one-to-one source code to make a fair comparison without mistakes. I did this for several months.

But I found out it’s not about putting the right code in M2, it’s simply isn’t *possible* to reach the same level of smoothness. It’s not.

iMac with dedicated GPU (an old ATI 4670 256MB, DDR4) performs worse. It’s not a bad card.
With Sierra and M1 this too performed amazingly perfect, for a while (until HS and M2 happened). The HS changes firmware so you can’t easily get back, and M2.. you know.. of course you want to use M2 instead of M1, right?

I know there’s a lot of development changes going on right now, OpenGL – OpenglES – Metal1 – Metal2 – SDL/SDL2 etc, some changes comes from OS’es itself, some comes from Monkey2, some might come from libraries that are used.

And I know that with High Sierra the beauty of Monkey1 died a terrible death, while Monkey2 kept working the way it always has. Which is interesting? Everything else in the world died with HighSierra but M2 works exactly the same before and after. I’m thinking metal2 and SDL now.

But of course this also tells me that dedicated graphics are abs not a must to reach super smooth graphics. I’m so very happy with my “meager” Intel HD 6000. Apple MacBook air GPU’s I guess uses DDR3 as they share the main memory, but it seem enough for getting what I would call; an amazing baseline GPU performance. Not a great one, but A *reliable performance*, and that’s way more important.

January 7, 2018 at 10:48 am #12728

PhatPeter

Participant

Actually for me it is a great permance.

I’m sick of everyone telling that you need to be able to run the newest 3d games with all bells and whistles to be “good”.

For me good performance is to be able to have the power of a few Neo Geo’s inside, maybe throw in couple of SNES as well, and to have them going and going and going as good as the machines themselves without hiccups. THAT’S good performance. That’s what I have with M1 and a MacBook Air (Sierra Intel HD 6000).

Why o why.. not with M2?

I need to be able to AT LEAST be able to touch the screen without hiccups for upcoming game.

January 7, 2018 at 11:03 am #12729

PhatPeter

Participant

I’m also doing a big project to see how technology e.g. microstutter etc introduces stress in people’s everyday lives. If anyone wonders

January 7, 2018 at 1:02 pm #12730

abakobo

Participant

you can run/play with the sdl2 banana to see if it’s mojo related, if you still see your micro stutter then you’d probably have to play with xcode and try to get something working out of pure opengl without GC (or sdl2+opengl too)…? I doubt mx2’s GC does those stutters though. I think it’s probably sdl2 too..

Then when you find the source of the hiccups PLEASE make a Pull Request to the corresponding community and enhance the world of game dev!

#import "<sdl2>"
#Import "<opengl>"

Namespace sdl2test

Using sdl2..
Using opengl..

Class SdlWindow

	Field sdlWindow:SDL_Window Ptr

	Field sdlGLContext:SDL_GLContext
	
	Field incrementer:=0
	
	Method New()
	
		SDL_Init( SDL_INIT_VIDEO )
		
		libc.atexit( SDL_Quit )
		
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_MASK,SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_ES )'COMPATIBILITY )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION,2 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MINOR_VERSION,1 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_DOUBLEBUFFER,1 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_RED_SIZE,8 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_GREEN_SIZE,8 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_BLUE_SIZE,8 )
		
		sdlWindow=SDL_CreateWindow( "SDL2 OpenGL Window",SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,640,480,SDL_WINDOW_OPENGL )
		
		sdlGLContext=SDL_GL_CreateContext( sdlWindow )
		
		SDL_GL_MakeCurrent( sdlWindow,sdlGLContext )
		
		bbglInit()
	End
	
	Method Run()
	
		Repeat
		
			Local event:SDL_Event
			
			While( SDL_PollEvent( Varptr event ) )
		
				Select event.type
					
				Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT
		
					Local wevent:=Cast<SDL_WindowEvent Ptr>( Varptr event )
			
					Select wevent->event
					
					Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT_CLOSE
					
						libc.exit_(0)
					
					End
					
				End

			Wend
			
			OnRender()
			
			SDL_GL_SwapWindow( sdlWindow )

		Forever
		
	End
	
	Method OnRender()
	
		glClearColor( 1,1,0,1 )
		
		glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )
		
		glEnable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )
		
		For Local y:=0 Until 256
		
			glScissor( incrementer,y,640,1 )
			glClearColor( y/256.0,0,0,1 )
			glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )
		
		Next
		incrementer+=1
		If incrementer=620 Then incrementer=0
		glDisable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )
	End
	
End


Function Main()

	Local window:=New SdlWindow
	
	window.Run()
End

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#import "<sdl2>"

#Import "<opengl>"

Namespace sdl2test

Using sdl2..

Using opengl..

Class SdlWindow

Field sdlWindow:SDL_Window Ptr

Field sdlGLContext:SDL_GLContext

Field incrementer:=0

Method New()

SDL_Init( SDL_INIT_VIDEO )

libc.atexit( SDL_Quit )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_MASK,SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_ES )'COMPATIBILITY )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION,2 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MINOR_VERSION,1 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_DOUBLEBUFFER,1 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_RED_SIZE,8 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_GREEN_SIZE,8 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_BLUE_SIZE,8 )

sdlWindow=SDL_CreateWindow( "SDL2 OpenGL Window",SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,640,480,SDL_WINDOW_OPENGL )

sdlGLContext=SDL_GL_CreateContext( sdlWindow )

SDL_GL_MakeCurrent( sdlWindow,sdlGLContext )

bbglInit()

End

Method Run()

Repeat

Local event:SDL_Event

While( SDL_PollEvent( Varptr event ) )

Select event.type

Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT

Local wevent:=Cast<SDL_WindowEvent Ptr>( Varptr event )

Select wevent->event

Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT_CLOSE

libc.exit_(0)

End

Wend

OnRender()

SDL_GL_SwapWindow( sdlWindow )

Forever

End

Method OnRender()

glClearColor( 1,1,0,1 )

glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )

glEnable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )

For Local y:=0 Until 256

glScissor( incrementer,y,640,1 )

glClearColor( y/256.0,0,0,1 )

glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )

incrementer+=1

If incrementer=620 Then incrementer=0

glDisable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )

End

Function Main()

Local window:=New SdlWindow

window.Run()

End

January 7, 2018 at 2:19 pm #12731

PhatPeter

Participant

Yes of course, I will do my best.

I tried the example using the latest compiled version, 1.1.09 (actually I found out it was precompiled while compiling the development version so i downloaded the precompiled one while compiling instead).

The code just gives me a black window is this a template meant to be that way? I’m looking at the Render method and am thinking it should give some colour changes like vertical bars or something?

Screenshot

January 7, 2018 at 4:13 pm #12733

PhatPeter

Participant

Commented out one line and got it working.

Screenshot

January 7, 2018 at 5:00 pm #12734

PhatPeter

Participant

Made a simple test and it’s easy to see if you look for a while that it’s still not always smooth.
I thought it was for a second there. Next step will be to find out why.

#import "<sdl2>"
#Import "<opengl>"
Namespace sdl2test
Using sdl2..
Using opengl..
' #Import "<std>"
' #Import "<mojo>"
' #Import "<mojo3d>"
' #Import "assets/"
' Using std..
' Using mojo..

Const w:=1920, h:=1080

Class SdlWindow
	Field sdlWindow:SDL_Window Ptr
	Field sdlGLContext:SDL_GLContext
	Field x:Int
	
	Method New()
		SDL_Init( SDL_INIT_VIDEO )		
		libc.atexit( SDL_Quit )		
	'	SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_MASK,SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_ES ) ' COMPATIBILITY )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION,2 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MINOR_VERSION,1 )

		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_DOUBLEBUFFER,1 )
				
		' SDL_GL_SetSwapInterval(1) ' ADDED	
		
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_RED_SIZE,8 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_GREEN_SIZE,8 )
		SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_BLUE_SIZE,8 )

		' sdlWindow=SDL_CreateWindow( "SDL2 OpenGL Window",SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,640,480,SDL_WINDOW_OPENGL )
		  sdlWindow=SDL_CreateWindow( "SDL2 OpenGL Window",SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,640,480,SDL_WINDOW_FULLSCREEN_DESKTOP | SDL_WINDOW_OPENGL )
		
		sdlGLContext=SDL_GL_CreateContext( sdlWindow )
		SDL_GL_MakeCurrent( sdlWindow,sdlGLContext )
		bbglInit()
	End
		
	Method Run()
		Repeat
			Local event:SDL_Event
			While( SDL_PollEvent( Varptr event ) )
				Select event.type
				Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT		
					Local wevent:=Cast<SDL_WindowEvent Ptr>( Varptr event )
					Select wevent->event		
					Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT_CLOSE
						libc.exit_(0)
					End	
				End
			Wend
			OnRender()
			SDL_GL_SwapWindow( sdlWindow )
		Forever
	End
	
	Method OnRender()
		
		' glClearColor( 1,1,0,1 )
		' glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )
		' glEnable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )
		' For Local y:=0 Until 25	6
		' 	glScissor( 0,y,640,1 )
		 '	glClearColor( y/256.0,0,0,1 )
		' 	glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )	
		' Next		
		' glDisable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )
	
		' Clear window ourselves...
		glClearColor( 0,0,1,1 )
		glClearDepth( 0 )
		glClearStencil( 0 )
		glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT|GL_DEPTH_BUFFER_BIT|GL_STENCIL_BUFFER_BIT )
		' Drawing area. You're always drawing to the entire window in GL regardless of Layout.
		' Don't really need this for this example is it only affects glDrawBlah, but nice to know...
		glViewport( 0,0,800,600)
		' Shader-less rect
		glEnable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )
		glScissor( x-32,600-x-32,64,64 )
		glClearColor( 1,0,0,1 )
		glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )
		glDisable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )
		
		x=x+1
		x=x Mod 600
	End
End

Function Main()
	Local window:=New SdlWindow
	window.Run()
End

#import "<sdl2>"

#Import "<opengl>"

Namespace sdl2test

Using sdl2..

Using opengl..

' #Import "<std>"

' #Import "<mojo>"

' #Import "<mojo3d>"

' #Import "assets/"

' Using std..

' Using mojo..

Const w:=1920, h:=1080

Class SdlWindow

Field sdlWindow:SDL_Window Ptr

Field sdlGLContext:SDL_GLContext

Field x:Int

Method New()

SDL_Init( SDL_INIT_VIDEO )

libc.atexit( SDL_Quit )

' SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_MASK,SDL_GL_CONTEXT_PROFILE_ES ) ' COMPATIBILITY )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION,2 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MINOR_VERSION,1 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_DOUBLEBUFFER,1 )

' SDL_GL_SetSwapInterval(1) ' ADDED

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_RED_SIZE,8 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_GREEN_SIZE,8 )

SDL_GL_SetAttribute( SDL_GL_BLUE_SIZE,8 )

' sdlWindow=SDL_CreateWindow( "SDL2 OpenGL Window",SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,640,480,SDL_WINDOW_OPENGL )

sdlWindow=SDL_CreateWindow( "SDL2 OpenGL Window",SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,SDL_WINDOWPOS_CENTERED,640,480,SDL_WINDOW_FULLSCREEN_DESKTOP | SDL_WINDOW_OPENGL )

sdlGLContext=SDL_GL_CreateContext( sdlWindow )

SDL_GL_MakeCurrent( sdlWindow,sdlGLContext )

bbglInit()

End

Method Run()

Repeat

Local event:SDL_Event

While( SDL_PollEvent( Varptr event ) )

Select event.type

Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT

Local wevent:=Cast<SDL_WindowEvent Ptr>( Varptr event )

Select wevent->event

Case SDL_WINDOWEVENT_CLOSE

libc.exit_(0)

End

Wend

OnRender()

SDL_GL_SwapWindow( sdlWindow )

Forever

End

Method OnRender()

' glClearColor( 1,1,0,1 )

' glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )

' glEnable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )

' For Local y:=0 Until 25 6

' glScissor( 0,y,640,1 )

' glClearColor( y/256.0,0,0,1 )

' glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )

' Next

' glDisable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )

' Clear window ourselves...

glClearColor( 0,0,1,1 )

glClearDepth( 0 )

glClearStencil( 0 )

glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT|GL_DEPTH_BUFFER_BIT|GL_STENCIL_BUFFER_BIT )

' Drawing area. You're always drawing to the entire window in GL regardless of Layout.

' Don't really need this for this example is it only affects glDrawBlah, but nice to know...

glViewport( 0,0,800,600)

' Shader-less rect

glEnable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )

glScissor( x-32,600-x-32,64,64 )

glClearColor( 1,0,0,1 )

glClear( GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT )

glDisable( GL_SCISSOR_TEST )

x=x+1

x=x Mod 600

End

Function Main()

Local window:=New SdlWindow

window.Run()

End

January 7, 2018 at 5:06 pm #12735

PhatPeter

Participant

Of course things like this looks smooth for most pp but I don’t have time to make better examples in openGL yet and I already clearly can see microstuttering somewhere there. Of course in this kind
of examples they are very small but you can see hints already of it if your good.

Instead I need to put all my time into finding out why. I think I know now.

January 7, 2018 at 5:11 pm #12736

nerobot

Participant

Look at this

https://github.com/blitz-research/monkey2/blob/34825f8b197c9dfa721888d21193ba93ac0b5728/modules/mojo/app/app.monkey2#L593

There is a WHILE loop that grab all events. Maybe we need to grab by portions or every second frame or … ?

I didn’t test how much millisecs are needed to dispatch holded keys. And maybe the bottleneck isn’t here.

January 7, 2018 at 7:06 pm #12738

PhatPeter

Participant

@nerobot I think you’re might be on to something there worth trying. I would be glad if somebody wants to try those changes. I’ve seen at least two instances where ppl solved their problem of CPU usage by two means in exactly that kind of loop.

Either they change while(SDL_PollEvent(&event)) into (SDL_PollEvent(&event)) like you said
or change SDL_PollEvent() into SDL_WaitEvent()

EDIT
“SDL2 actually generates key repeat events automatically. You need to manually filter repeated key events out by checking the repeat member of a SDL_KeyboardEvent. This is something that did not automatically happen in SDL1, so that’s why the behaviour is different. See SDL_KeyboardEvent for more info.”

January 7, 2018 at 7:29 pm #12739

PhatPeter

Participant

This is related. Re-arranging this very dispatch to be FIRST instead of LAST has been a thought up fix for having a faster mouse aswell. It makes the mouse in Mojo as fast as the SDL one. The Mojo one are always one (or two?) frames behind SDL and it’s very visible if you need a well performing mouse.

Mojo Render Lagging

January 8, 2018 at 11:10 am #12754

PhatPeter

Participant

I will see what I can do, I have much faith in Monkey2 but it has become a struggle to keep my sanity while trying to solve this issue. We’re 15 additional people working on the project as a whole but I’m the single person that currently use any Blitz’s products and I do it because of the nostalgia it brings me and what I saw Monkey1(together with Mojo2, not regular Mojo1) was capable of.

It’s actually painful to see how Monkey1+Mojo2 produces perfectly smooth games on all the platforms (Except Android which always has some minor minor jitter but that’s Androids own fault I’ve condemned that forever they will probably need to change their OS they can’t fix it but god knows they’ve tried since JellyBean).

Sadly Monkey2 are still behaving exactly like Monkey1+Mojo1 on all machines I’ve seen it working on.

Windows and Mac behaves the same btw so this is not an MacOS-isolated issue.
Actually these two platforms are perfectly in sync with how different versions of the compiler behave etc, that’s a good thing in a way.

I can see how people miss it though because it’s such minor differences.

But there’s a long long way from 99.9% to 100% for people like me ^^

January 8, 2018 at 11:17 am #12755

PhatPeter

Participant

Also of course, when things like these mouse/touch/keyboard issues enlarges the effect it gets to the point that it needs to be fixed to get something that is practical. This shows how you should never leave a problem laying around unfixed. It will bite you.

Things working *just almost* are dangerous stuff.

January 8, 2018 at 4:31 pm #12758

abakobo

Participant

I’d be happy you could find how to get mx2 supper fluid. But it’s becoming too technical for me, I’m affraid I can’t help on that.. And I must say for now I’m not disturbed buy the micro stutters. Doesn’t have SierraHigh though.

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