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Installer to auto configure all the targets is definitely needed. From my usage of Cerberus X (a Monkey X fork which is actually really good), the setting up all of the targets manually is pretty cumbersome. It isn’t hard, but it’s definitely boring and mind-numbing. However this could be handled by Steam “first run” scripts (hey, another reason to use Steam version over open-source/free one without holding features hostage).
As for examples, these could be made by community and Mark could put them in the official release with permission of the authors. From my experience though, tutorials are far more important than examples as (at least in my case) one learns better from actually doing stuff than from reading example code.
//edit: In all seriousness, Monkey 2 could be put on steam as it is now with improvements done afterwards. It’s pretty solid in terms of main library and language’s syntax and it’s really easy to learn if you programmed in OOP languages (and virtually all programming courses nowaday teach OOP instead of structural programming) before. And even as a noob this can be easily learned as OOP just makes more sense. For example you put a cup on a table (OOP), not tell the table that it now has a cup on it (Structural programing).
Just that it needs a low price, $15-20 would be good enough. Not only it will undercut AGK and make them compete on price as well, not just features, but if Mark would make Monkey 2’s price too high, people would just download open-source version of it. And closing the source would not work, because I can guarantee somebody would fork last open release and start backporting features.
But as I’ve said previously – Krita is doing a very similar thing and it doing well. They’ve priced paid release of their software appropriately and people are buying it just for the convenience alone. It is highly likely that people will do the same in Monkey 2 case.
My point exactly. Just wanted to share what in my opinion would make Monkey popular. And seriously, do something about the site. I don’t expect you to hire anyone for designing it because as you said (this is to Mark), you can’t really afford to, but original Monkey X site was just dandy and I think you should just refurbish it and use its design for Monkey 2. Just change wherever it said “Monkey X” to “Monkey 2” or “Monkey X 2” and it’ll be just fine.
I see Steam tip is gathering, well, steam. But it’s only one prong of this plan to get people to use Monkey. If people don’t know Monkey exists or that it (or its predecessor, Monkey X) has been used to develop their favorite games or indie hits, they won’t buy it, whether it’s on Steam or not. That’s why points 4 and 5 are so important to get it out to the people who want to make great games.
Availability means nothing if you don’t know it exists. I’ve recently found out about a wonderful survival sandbox MMO with an unique leveling system called Rogalia.
It literally popped into my Steam queue. There are little to no videos about it on YT in English and those that are are from a very old version. It’s available, just no one knows about it.
And Monkey2 is easy to use. I don’t know why people are saying it isn’t as easy to use as Blitz* or Dark Basic or AGK when in fact it is. Thanks to OOP focus and all modern programming tutorials being based on OOP (and all other engines using OOP languages as well) I’d say it’s even easier, all you really have to do is to get used to the syntax and making games in Monkey 2 will be a breeze.
And yes, Steam version should be cheap (again, something between $15-$20) to get the crowd that think AGK is overpriced (for a “game BASIC” it is overpriced – “Game BASICs” of old such as STOS or AMOS weren’t that expensive. They costed something like AAA game costs nowadays) or who are saving for it, but still looking for the cheaper alternative.
And once they know about Monkey and used it for some time, they’ll convince people who just bought AGK to refund it and buy Monkey instead and the word will spread about a better and cheaper game making language that doesn’t nickel and dime its users for features. Some of these people won’t even know that they can download Monkey for free (albeit without updates or Workshop support for modules and so on), they’ll buy it anyway. And even if they’ll later get to know about Monkey being available for free, they won’t care. I mean, $15 is what you pay for an indie game, and with Monkey you can make your own games.
So yeah, Mark should definitely put it on steam.
The non-steam version should stay free and open though. No autoupdater for non-steam version too so people would have a reason, other than supporting Monkey development, to buy Steam version (Steam does autoupdating by default). Also, the Steam version should be cheap, 15-20 USD cheap, so people will choose Monkey over similar tools like AGK.Basically, forcing them to compete in price too.
As for any doubts if it would work, Krita (an awesome digital painting app) is using similar model and it works for them quite well. The version available on krita.org is free and open-source, but you have to keep an eye for updates and update it yourself while the Steam version updates automatically. People will pay quite happily for that kind of convenience. Not to mention Mark could update new releases of Monkey 2 to Steam before he updates release on itchio, say a week before or so. The regular users could get their hands on them there if they want to, but they’d need to compile Monkey themselves. This adds another layer of convenience to the Steam version without being unfair to people who can’t for whatever reason build Monkey from sources and can’t afford Steam version (they can wait a week)
Complete with Monkey 2 costing significantly less than similar software such as AppGameKit (I propose 15-20 USD price), this would be a big success and would massively undercut the competition on Steam since competition “game BASICs” often cost 30+USD and some even cost over 100USD. And why would you pay 300+USD for AGK (the price of Unlimited bundle which has all AGK features) where you can have similarly featured “game BASIC” that is OOP on top of that for $15? People would flock towards Monkey instead of AGK, which is AFAIK still structural BASIC and haven’t evolved into OOP variant like Monkey did after development of Blitz* line was completed.
//edit: Another thing that may make people get Steam version would be if Steam release supported Workshop for stuff like custom modules, examples and so on. Which would make it easier to get additional modules as code handling Workshop would automatically unpack and put modules where they belong instead of having user do this which is both cumbersome and, since you’re depending on human to do computer’s job, prone to mistakes.
Thank you all for these kind comments. I hope Mark will feel the same about it.
Exactly why I’ve proposed it. Again, Krita (a great art program) does a similar thing with its Krita Gemini offering and they’re doing okay with it.