This topic contains 31 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by 
AdamStrange
1 year, 3 months ago.
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Not sure what you mean here by ‘target their audience a little better’…these names are, IMO, just as meaningless as ‘monkey’, and these languages are not well known due to any slick marketing or because they have ‘Zap’ or an ‘X’ in the title, but because they are actually *good* at what they do. I think monkey1 has managed to make a little headway here too – ie: things like new star soccer, the necro dancer game etc
Well my comment was subjective for sure, but my meaning is that while they are all meaningless names, some of the bigger name languages/programming environments have words that sound more programmerish. Again this is in the eye of the beholder, but to me if you said say “gears” I might think technical/programming; if you said “pigeon” I might think messaging/communication; if you said “juiced” I might think a plugin/enhancement. Certain words have an implied meaning, which is just an added bonus to overcome that discovery hurdle. That is echoing what shinkiro said too.
I must admit though I did not realize Europeans had such a crappy opinion of monkeys. Here, they’re generally regarded as fun, cute, playful, clever etc, all generally cool+laid-back+positive. Perhaps I would not have gone with monkey at the outset if I had known this.
Yet the name monkey for monkey1 seems to have ‘stuck’ OK. I don’t think it doomed the language or anything and monkey is sort of a known quantity in the indie game dev scene now as far as I can tell. I even catch the odd monkey t-shirt popping up on facebook now and then (OK, twice)!
Would more people be trying out monkey2 if it had a different name? I guess it’s possible, but I doubt it. What I do know is that rebranding now would be a MAJOR PITA and would throw away any/all goodwill the name ‘monkey’ has built-up over the last several years.
Yeah I seriously doubt that the name monkey has crippled the user base, but perhaps it’s just made it harder.
Could you not play in the monkey theme and “evolve” the name to something monkey themed, but not so bluntly “monkey”? That way you could get a name that is on brand, and consider other names that have a more universal meaning. You could even play on the evolution idea in how you present the product.
it could also be an age thing I spend half my life telling my kids to stop being little monkeys and behave and a lot of parents I think do the same, so in our mind we associate monkey with silliness.
also can you call the sample folder samples it took me 10 mins to find them as it didn’t cross my mind on bananas LOL
just that its hard explaining to you friends that I been trying out monkey2 with out them pissing them selves laughing.
” Not sure what you mean here by ‘target their audience a little better’…these names are, IMO, just as meaningless as ‘monkey’”
“Never say never, but my current POV is that we’d be nuts to change the name.”
“I really, really want to move forward, not backwards here”well i think Mark’s message is clear, the name has no real meaning just a naming convention like a logo that has nothing to do with its product, the purpose is to know what or who the subject matter is. after all people are cool with python (snake)
and what the hecks a c or c++ or java which was named because coders drank a lot of coffee.and he wants to move forward…id hate to see monkey2 slowdown or stop cause of a name. as long as he knows this topic didn’t come from a bad place and its actually love from the community….and if he needed help its definitely here.
the best thing we can do is make some kick ass games from it and people will know he’s Not Monkeying Around…see what i just did there…the name has no real meaning just a naming convention like a logo that has nothing to do with its product
The interesting thing is, that it has been brought up time and time again since 2012. So there seems to be something “rubbing” people the wrong way. To be honest, we have no idea how many people that are, or if it’s just a handful of people. So to solve this “the right way” you would actually need data (like a survey).
PS: I don’t think anyone here suggesting a name change does so because of “monkey hate”. It’s simply that we are very passionate about this product, care, and want as many other people as possible seeing that too.
Yeah this is correct, the language is a serious contender for all types of devs, but if the name “monkey” is hindering progress even slightly, it’s sensible for people to voice their concerns (albeit the same old topic that has repeated).
Discussing the name isn’t going to hold back the language, and if something comes out of it (whatever that may be) then its productive to have the conversation again.
it could also be an age thing I spend half my life telling my kids to stop being little monkeys and behave and a lot of parents I think do the same, so in our mind we associate monkey with silliness.
also can you call the sample folder samples it took me 10 mins to find them as it didn’t cross my mind on bananas LOL
just that its hard explaining to you friends that I been trying out monkey2 with out them pissing them selves laughing.
Yeah this, it definitely rings of “silly monkey”, “silly billy”, etc.
The interesting thing is, that it has been brought up time and time again since 2012. So there seems to be something “rubbing” people the wrong way. To be honest, we have no idea how many people that are, or if it’s just a handful of people. So to solve this “the right way” you would actually need data (like a survey).
PS: I don’t think anyone here suggesting a name change does so because of “monkey hate”. It’s simply that we are very passionate about this product, care, and want as many other people as possible seeing that too.
i do agree with you, i think marketing itself is a black art, even down to the color scheme, if all the pieces dont line up it can spell disaster. i was just saying in the end its Mark’s call and if he wants help he should have no problem finding it here
Yeah this, it definitely rings of “silly monkey”, “silly billy”, etc.
dont forget what else monkeys are known for…strength and intelligence!! which need to be highlighted. and 2 things you can definitely associate with this language.
their playfulness is mistaken for sillyness imo.
Everybody wants to find an excuse for why the language has not caught on while we all think it’s a great language. But for more experienced programmers in the popular languages that have quite a bit of libraries to choose from and a large community to fall to in case of problems, this is just an experimental trial language in which they are not to keen on gambling their time. Unless we, who now make the community, start making quality games and putting them out for other communities to see and envy, this is going to keep being a small community which only those of us who have been here and have blind faith in the Blitz products will continue to be here.
The fact that this language is no longer the simple to get started “Blitz Basic” from the old days, makes it even harder for a beginner to start and while this is the case for most other languages as well, the attention will be directed to the already most popular computer languages available that have plenty of tutorials and excellent documentations as well as a large number of useful libraries. As long as this continue no matter what name the language gets, its going to be passed by skilled programmers that don’t want to spend time reinventing the wheel.
That brings me to the conclusion that if mark would have stuck to improving a single language and supported the community, the community would be very large and very fruitful by now and possibly we would not be having this discussion. ***wishful thinking***
When you have concerns about branding and business naming needs, kindly check some naming suggestions and tips at http://eatmywords.com/tips/is-your-name-lame/. This is also what I used for my business startups/
You guys do know that your lives will not end by using a masterpiece of the basic programming world? It’s called monkey2/mx2. I did not anticipate, ever, that some would find it difficult, offensive, embarrassing, to inform others of the name of the programming language they are currently using.
It’s ok you know. It’s called monkey2/mx2.
Try and breathe, in through the nose, out through the mouth. Repeat as needed.
It begins as a thought. You run the scenario, thinking wave, of you, telling people you are using a programming language called monkey2. This then leads you to a fresh thought wave where, one after the other, you are each person, replying to you on how stupid and embarrassing it is to use a games’ programming language, called monkey2.
None of this is actually happening though. You are wasting valuable mind energy thinking about stuff that will have no benefit to your life except to motivate you to be anxious and irritated, leading you to the inevitable; a day wasted with no coding done because you finished yourself thinking about what others will say and how bad it would be to use a programming language called monkey2/mx2.
lol. You guys do know that you can pick what to think about?
Regards,
To be honest, we have no idea how many people that are, or if it’s just a handful of people.
Count me in on that one. I’ve tried to explain what I use to other devs, got a lot of WOW when I showed them how quick I could achieve something with a few lines of code and then they asked for the name and started laughing.
It’s sad but yeah, the name DOES matter.
The way I see it (now) is that Mark simply does not want to have many people using this language at this(!) point.
Oh and that was quite an old thread, Crypt of the Necrodancer revive alike? Will be closed soon probably.
Most people always follow the brands name and what it stands for. Without proper marketing and or promotion of that services, they won’t be able to identify what is your service for. And aside from the brand name, there is also a good value of using slogan or taglines to be more expressive and emphasized.
Regards,
Joshua of eatmywordsnames.comI think it’s time to start charging $100 – $150 for MonkeyX2.
or
A subscription fee; yearly, at $100 but not for MonkeyX2. For accessing updates.
or
$100 for MonkeyX2 which comes with 1 year of free updates which is then reduced to $70 per year for the right to get updates.
People, well, from what I gather, would like a value assigned to digital tech. So let them spend.
Oh, this is an old thread heh.
I don’t think it’s the right time to charge for Monkey 2.
Charging for something increases the expectations, substantially.
And I don’t think Monkey 2 is ready to compete with other languages yet.
It’s heading for greatness, but it’s not quite there yet.
It needs to grow, and some much needed polish and documentation.
He’d probably need to fresh up the webpage before all of it too, first impression are very important, especially when asking for money.If a free product can’t attract users yet, I don’t think the next step is to start charging for it.
I disagree with all of that.
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